Ok, /tg/ - I have a question.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
because fuck you troll
Anonymous
I think it's because they abandon their orders to join a group that is not objectively any better than the one their leaving. /tg/ hates traitors I guess.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Because they are delusional tools and furries.
Quoted By:
Because they're race traitor and deserve to be shot.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Why? Simply put, the author said that ALL FUCKING MANKIND are doomed if they don't get the unobtanium.
Anonymous
Mostly it's just knee-jerk reaction against the tree-hugging propaganda that comes with the switch, and because it's outright claiming that this culture is better than Western culture.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283360
Then there's the fact that it's very easy to argue that they turn traitor not because they believe that the cause is just, but in the pursuit of exotic pussy.
Anonymous
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oscarandbosie1.png,
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Quoted By:
>>12283360
or, in Jark Suuuller's case, betraying one's species for no other reason than "prophecy" comes off as a little holier than thou, not to mention the fact that he guaranteed that humanity would be destroyed. That tends to come off as a little prickish any way you slice it.
In the case of Dances with Wolves, it's a romanticized story of how there is a good side and bad side. Obviously we know that both sides weren't all pretty pictures and princesses, but sad fact is there are winners and there are losers. When you willingly choose death before victory with no reason to choose death, you're kind of a tool and a douche. Now, if it was choosing to save a bucket full of burning babies carrying puppies and kittens where all the babies will grow up to save the future but dying in the process, or siding with the guy with the lighter fluid who may be the incarnation of evil it's a little more your life vs. everyone's well being. These guys didn't play that game. They played douche ball and came off as faggots because of it.
Anonymous
Don't forget that the white guy is invariably a better Indian than the Indians are
Anonymous
WRONG
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
people like to gather in semi exclusive groups, and compete against others for resources and good shit. anyone going against them is a competitor, so if someone from the inside becomes a turncoat, they villify him/her even moreso. americans hate benedict arnold too. as for me, i think its amusing when a person decides to take thier own beliefs and honor so seriously that they have the courage to go against what is expected of him/her.
OP
>>12283360
/tg/ hating traitors makes sense then - lots of 40k neckbeards here.
My opinion on it is kinda this - morally, from the standpoint of the modern day ideal that imperialism went out of style around the turn of the century, is that a vastly technologically superior race stepping in to remove a tribal culture with little to no technology, from their homelands, just for resources, or in avatars case money, is not something you can really support from a moral standpoint - its basically the bully on the playground beating you up for your lunch money - being who i am, it gives me a kinda biased opinion toward imperialism, but its just the way history turned out.
>Because they are delusional tools and furries
joining the sioux makes you a furry?
>Because they're race traitor and deserve to be shot.
true - but from a moral standpoint, do those being betrayed really deserve loyalty if their murdering indigenous for money?
Honestly, would it have been better to conscientiously object and leave the conflict?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283465
I don't care what you think, I would burn a thousand worlds of blue cat people for a strong supply of room temperature super conductor.
Anonymous
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Quoted By:
hey i just felt like sayin teegee, yall are racist
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
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Quoted By:
>>12283467
but in the case of avatar, id sell out every last man, woman, and child for DAT NEY.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
cos both characters are completely over the top sues.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
At no point is it stated that humanity 'needs' the Unobtanium to survive. It's stated that Unobtanium is worth a ridiculously huge amount of money.
Anonymous
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Quoted By:
>>12283449
But everybody knows that the heathen savages can't fight unless a white man is leading them.
Anonymous
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>>12283465
Aww, I'm sorry that you didn't watch the same shitty movie, but they do say that earth is dying and the unobtainium is necessary. The reason they bring up the money is because it's so rare. Sorry if third grade comprehension skills evaded you, but they do say Earth is dying, overpopulated, what not.
If I need something bad enough, you better believe some gay "i fuck with my tentacle hair" blue fucks aren't going to stop me from taking it.
Pic related: fag happenings.
Quoted By:
You make the fundamental flaw of assuming that people hated him within the context of the universe, as opposed to hating the universe itself and what that brings with it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283521
>but they do say that earth is dying
Yes, they do.
>and the unobtainium is necessary
No, they don't.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12283521
when he said thier dying world he meant it as a hippie would say it; spiritually dying from disrespect of nature, pollution, blah.
unobtanium is only said to be valuable. no where in the movie is it said to be vital for survival. nowhere.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
Quoted By:
>>12283521
No they don't.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12283536
besides, even if it was vital, it would still be immoral in general to eradicate a race to obtain it. it may be whats best for the needy culture in question, but undeniable immoral.
i realize shit like that needs to be done for survival, but it should never be considered good and fuck year.
Anonymous
OP, it's a backlash against the self-loathing overexaggeration of liberal guilt - that seemingly all the faults of the world stem entirely from the white heterosexual male and that minorities and natives are pure and blameless. This is resented partially because it is simply an objectively untrue fiction and latter-day mythmaking - for instance no-one can suggest that Red Indians for instance were all sunbeams, lollipops and rainbows - and people naturally resent being caricatured as the baddies in this way, or being accused of plain imaginary wrongs. It's also disliked because the masochistic "liberal guilt" attitude, where lambasting your history gives you a vicarious pleasure and sense of satisfaction - does not sit well with most people, who like to take pride in what they are as much as any other demographic in the world.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283521
Hmm funny, I don't recall it being mentioned at all how it was vital. And realistically, What possible use could a room temp superconductor be to a planet with too many people on it thats completly tapped out resource wise. Face it, that shit was being mined so 13 year olds could play halo 19 and World of Warcraft 7. Or possibly Dwarf Fortress with a Graphical UI.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12283572
indeed. the screenplay doesnt have any mention of this either.
Deathleaper's Fangirl !!YD/t8+iuFvd
>>12283521
>I honestly don't remember any mention of Unobtanium being essential. Useful, sure, valuable, definitely. But essential to keep humanity from dying out? I've got no memory of that, and the mention of Earth 'dying' struck me more as a metaphor for increasing pollution and decreasing areas of untainted, natural environment.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283521
Fuck even the somewhat grimdark, "RDA is going to eat your babies" background material explictly says its just worth a ton of cash.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283605
>I'll enjoy Avatar 2 where humans just nuke the super-conductor planet.
Only in your masturbatory fantasies, kid.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283570
Conservatard detected.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12283605
i was saying that his statement was not literal, but "as a hippie would say it", just a way of describing the meaning behind what he said.
Deathleaper's Fangirl !!YD/t8+iuFvd
>>12283609
Uh. I have no idea why I greentext'd that, sorry.
Regardless, this actually made Avatar a worse film. Cartoonishly polarizing Humans into EEEEVIL bad guys and the Na'vi into perfect flower-children rendered any sort of moral or philosophical point moot.
And I say this as someone who falls very much into the liberal end of the spectrum. Avatar was a bad movie - visually spectacular, but for me, failed in what it attempted to do.
Anonymous
>>12283605
>Implying humanity as a whole would give a shit that a bunch of third rate mercs and some corperate scumbags got their asses kicked by the natives on a deathworld, and wouldn't just end up checking out some other star systems.
Anonymous
I don't hate them for joining the native culture. I just hate Sully because joining the native culture doomed Earth because it mentions in the background stuff that it needs the unobtanium. So he writes off his whole species to die. He handled things horribly too, he could have mentioned the whole they're going to demolish your tree thing at any time but he never did. I don't hate Costner's guy.
Anonymous
>Without Unobtanium, interstellar commerce on this scale would not be possible. Unobtanium is not only the key to Earth’s energy needs in the 22nd century, but it is the enabler of interstellar travel and the establishment of a truly spacefaring civilization. This makes a feedback loop; the more Unobtanium is mined, the more ships can be built and the more mining equipment can be sent to Pandora.
Anonymous
>>12283668
Dude we've pretty much proven that they dont need the unobtanium at all, its just worth a huge pile of money so fat kids can play the haloz.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283658
Except the only people that left to return to earth were the people who were 'evil.' All the sympathizers could be seen staying behind. So they can spin this story however the fuck they want.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Avatar just had a lot of silly writing.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12283654
well, i agree that the polarization was just too over the top, and the message crammed down the viewers throat. Showing a darker side to the Na'vi would have helped immensely. Ney alludes to the fact that her ancestor "brought the clans together in a time of great sorrow", so maybe there was some tribal warfare that could have made the Na'vi less rainbow folk.
Anonymous
>>12283681
>>12283681
> Unobtanium is not only the key to Earth’s energy needs in the 22nd century
>The key to the earths energy needs in the 22nd century
What part of this do you chuckle fucks not understand?
Anonymous
>>12283670
Then why didn't they say that in the movie? It would have made the entire conflict much more interesting.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283570
Following up on this guy, who said something pretty similar to the way I think about it.
Dances With Wolves comes across to me as advancing an affirmative-action position, and affirmative action has always been a controversial subject with a lot of arguing about it, so the negative reactions shouldn't be surprising.
Anonymous
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Quoted By:
>>12283706
Because that would have made sense. So yeah argument over everyone the DO NEED IT.
All ya'll saying otherwise just got told.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
>>12283670
It's from James Cameron's Avatar: An Activist Survival Guide
It's a book explaning the entire fucking planets and species.
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/James_Cameron%27s_Avatar:_An_Activist_Survival_Guide
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12283701
oil is vital to our energy needs, but when it runs out, we arent going to die out.
Anonymous
>>12283724
There you have it, the guy who wrote the whole movie makes it's core message completely contradictory.
SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo
>>12283333
I don't think it's the typical objection on /tg/, but my main beef is it would have meant more to show the Na'vi or the Native Americans in DwW resisting on their own, rather than throw in some white dude. Like, there's something kinda troubling about the oppressor wrapping himself in the cloak of the oppressed. Cause for us, it's a hat we put on, but for the colonized peoples, they can't just take off their oppression hat whenever they feel like it.
Check out this article; it's pretty much my view, OP.
http://io9.com/5422666/when-will-white-people-stop-making-movies-like-avatar
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283728
Except as stated earlier, because they cannot grow food normally they need unobtanium to supplement the rising populations demand for food which can only be produced in green houses.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12283734
indeed. i'm disappointed. i stand by the fact that <survival> does not require said energy, civilization does, but as long as there are rocks and sticks and animals, mankind will survive. in a level of tech not unlike that of the na'vi...
Anonymous
Displaced South Amerindfag here. . . Traitors deserve a brutal death. Always. Every time.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283472
>Joining the sioux makes you a furry?
I meant that towards DWW prot.
Jake "Bitch" sully is the furry who quit being human to be a kitty cat.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12283766
even the traitorous nazi's that tried to assassinate hitler?
Anonymous
>>12283728
Actually, if oil ran out tomorrow, a good chunk of humanity would starve to death.
Luckily, oil will only peak, and probably never run out. But you'd be a raging moron if you thought oil was anything but vital to modern agriculture
Tomathy Jones !EUuDlLY8WQ
>>12283741
Man, that's fucking whiny. Here's a thought: we would all hate it less if the Navi weren't Mary Sue smurf eco-fetishists against THE EVIL HUMAN EMPIRE AND THE HORRORS OF INDUSTRIALIZATION.
SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo
Quoted By:
>>12283570
I agree, but I think /tg/ tilts too far to the opposite colonial-apologist extreme. It really is true that it was white folks did a lot of nasty shit and fucked things up for a lot of people, but that doesn't make everybody else angels. I mean, in my home state in MN part of the reason the Natives were pushed out as easily as they were is that the Ojibwe and Dakota were at each others throats before we even got there. But even if we recognize that, we can still move forward by trying to right what wrongs we can, do right by people we've messed things up for, and so forth, not because it'll soothe our egos or something but because it's the right thing to do. And it's worth noting, that the West isn't without value, not by a long shot. It's there that ideas like inalienable human rights and such by and large originated. There are a lot of things about the West that are worth protecting, and I think my fellow lefties too easily forget that sometimes.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12283796
i understand that, i thought we were talking about survival of a race. our race would not be killed off.
Anonymous
Because abandoning your beliefs and moral compass at the drop of a hat simply because you found one or two likable or admirable facets of your opponents culture is not a good trait. It's called treason if done in time of war, and the typical punishment is a quick drop with a long rope.
Anonymous
>>12283766
hey, whats your skin color and origin
I sure hope you arn't a descendant of some interracial occurance or of natives and conquestadors eventually working together in a forced way
Anonymous
>>12283569
>besides, even if it was vital, it would still be immoral in general to eradicate a race to obtain it.
No, if it is vital then this is about survival in which case we are under no obligation to consign ourselves to extinction, no matter what the price of survival is.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12283820
>and fuck you if you think that aliens, indians, weaboos, or any other goddamned other fucking civilization/species is better than your own.
This is an attitude I struggle to understand. Just because you're born on a particular chunk of land automatically means you have to support and like the culture attached to it? Even if it has nothing to do with your own personal morals and ethics?
Anonymous
>>12283820
if the chinese discovered a way to solve world hunger forever it would be bad to accept it because that would be admitting you like a facet of another culture
get real idiot
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12283820
no one is saying the Na'vi are better than humans...fuck, here on earth, we (sometimes) go out of our way to protect animals, like whales and shit, and the whole alaska drilling vs. animal habitat thing. regardless its not just fuck year awesome to eradicate them. that kind of thinking merits you some shiny boots, medals an red armbands
Amerindfag
>>12283794
An individual must place their people and the future of their people first, to the exclusion of another culture's social norms, lest the society breakdown.
Your analogy fails to make the proper connection. That is an example of 1940s Europeans attempting to kill another 1940s European to preserve the sanctity of their 1940s European lifestyle. Maintaining the status quo, not a betrayal of culture.
SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo
>>12283802
I'm also not going to apologize for the Mary Sue writing, but is it being a polemic against industrialized global capitalism really that alarming to you? Because I mean, as far as that's concerned, I think the film's heart is in the right place.
Have you been following the Chevron lawsuit by the Ecuadorian peasants? Where they were awarded billions in damages by an Ecuadorian court (corp wanted the trial held there because of their weak justice system, but it backfired) and Chevron refused to pay, so now they're doing it again in US court? Corporate and capitalist abuse of people and land isn't just something from our past, it's happening right now. Doesn't this shit bother you at all?
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12283836
i said nothing about obligation, if we need it to survive, it must be taken, there is no argument against that. but it shouldnt be painted as fun or the right thing to do. its just a grim choice that had to be made, and should be treated as such
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Quoted By:
Oh and if I remember correctly. It's Sully to convince the Na'vi to leave peacefuly. Or am I wrong?
Amerindfag
Quoted By:
>>12283826
whoreson adopted by Nebraskans . . .
Tomathy Jones !EUuDlLY8WQ
>>12283869
>>12283869
Yeah, it bothers me, but in a vague, back-of-the-head kind of way because I can't do shit about it. It's up to the people in third world countries to unionize and stop foreign corporations from taking advantage of them. If they can't muster the willpower to do so, then I have little pity for them. And if the government won't support the best interests of its people, then they're fucked even without corporations exploiting them.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12283868
he said traitors should be killed every time, that was just an example. it would be meaningful to germans.
SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo
>>12283912
That's kind of a shitty attitude. It's up to the working class in the rest of the world to have their backs; that's what the whole solidarity thing is supposed to be about. And I don't expect either of us can march downtown to the Chevron office and get shit done, but even just keeping our eyes and ears and minds open can be real tangible support, because it really does hurt these corps' bottom line when people hear about them doing nasty shit.
Amerindfag
Quoted By:
If I lived and stayed in Brazil, had grown up there and been part of the tribal community, it would behoove me to do the best to improve the lot of my tribe, against all forces, internal and external, that would place a burden upon the tribe to achieve the best possible life as my tribe believed. If I say "Fuck it, These Nike's Da Bomb" and sell out my tribe. . . I'm a bad person.
SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo
Quoted By:
>>12283654
I couldn't agree more.
Anonymous
>>12283859
If the chinese discovered a way to solve world hunger then bully for them. That one simple act would not make me a traitor to my country for them simply because they found a way to fix that problem. My culture has still solved other problems that the chinese have not. Problems such as how to deal with Nazi's, how to bomb the Japanese back into the stone age, how to fly, how to make a car drive, and best and most importantly of all, how to make idiot children think that other cultures are better than their own simply because they are different little snowflakes.
You aren't special. The fact you like another country doesn't make you morally superior to your fellow countrymen who prefer their homes. In fact it makes you worse than them, because while they are happy with what they have, you always seek a way to change it into something it is not.
People like that are the greatest moral detriment to society and the foundations it is based upon. You do not see foreign governments espousing how wonderful our culture is while their people live in muck and misery. No, you see them decrying it while they covet it. Fuck the dirty goddamned foreigners. Fuck them right in their foreign alien blue skinned hearts.
You know who the fucking hero of Avatar was? It's Quaritch, because he was simply trying to save his fellow humans from death at the hands of an alien race on an alien planet where everything they did was hostile to humanity.
And fuck the alien bastards. Nuke their whole goddamned planet into glass. That or give them small pox blankets, like we did with the indians.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
I haven't read dances with wolves.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
As far as unobtainium goes, humans aren't captain planet's enemies personified. They sure as fuck wouldn't go to the trouble of trying to get the stuff if it wasn't absolutely critical. The alternative, the concept that unobtainium is just expensive as all hell, doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if they had magic antigrav liftoff, an ounce of unobtanium would have to be worth (rough, non inflated math mind you) something like 50,000 dollars today to be worth the multiple month cryo and avatar program investment, and that's probably with a bare bones profit.
Anonymous
>>12283875
>but it shouldnt be painted as fun or the right thing to do. its just a grim choice that had to be made, and should be treated as such
I can agree to that. I think the film would have been better if neither side had been demonized or painted as perfect. The Na'Vi should have been brutal tribesman who attacked and butchered human miners on a constant basis. At the same time it should have been clear that the humans were destroying their environment, their home, their way of life.
However, we should have also seen that the humans were trying to save their civilization, for the sake of their own children. Both sides should have been desperate and when they finally come to war and dozens or hundreds are killed in the battle it would have been a real tragedy... it would have been memorable.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
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>>12283994
yes genocide against the indians was awesome and makes us upstanding moral folk.
Amerindfag
Quoted By:
>>12283994
Sadly, this.
>captcha = progress drentatz
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Jake was a bad guy because he was supposed to be negotiating with the locals. It was Jake's job to make military action unnecessary through diplomacy. Did Jake do his job? NO...he spent the whole movie trying to fuck the chief's daughter.
Anonymous
>>12284020
You are goddamned right it does. We went there, they had what we wanted, and we fucking took it.
Manifest destiny motherfucker, can you dig it?
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12284019
indeed, just as a lot of the anon's here, we are very divided. wouldve been more realistic.
Anonymous
>>12284020
>yes genocide against the indians was awesome and makes us upstanding moral folk.
What genocide? The vast majority died out from exposure to disease and many more married into white society and were simply absorbed.
The Indians lost because they fought one another as much as they fought the white man. In the end the white man had a bigger population and a more sophisticated civilization so of-course he was the only left standing.
Natives were never rounded up and exterminated though.
SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo
>>12284044
Not really, man. Don't you have a Tea Party to be at?
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
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Tomathy Jones !EUuDlLY8WQ
>>12283962
>It's up to the working class in the rest of the world to have their backs
No, it's not. It's up to them. This is not some retarded fantasy land utopia where we all band together and live in a united world where everyone is fed and clothed and a productive member of society. I can do nothing about this. You can do nothing about this. We are literally helpless ants before giants. They have all the money and the power, and everyone else is too caught up in their own worries to care. People in some other country are being exploited? Gee, I have bills to pay, and my health insurance is shitty, and I need to put food on the table, and I'm working a wage slave job right now, and I'm so wrapped up in my own issues that I can barely spend a moment grieving for another nation when my entire country--my beautiful, glorious nation built on freedom--has its politicians bought and sold by special interest groups and those who care about the average man are few and far between.
I would love it if we could solve the world's problems. I would love it if we could galvanize the rest of the world to work together and resolve our differences peacefully. But we can't, and it will never happen. So forgive me for having a shitty attitude about other countries when my own country is rapidly circling the drain due to a crippling national debt and unsustainable economic policies.
Stately Buff-Cookie!
>>12283417
>They may have been betraying the 'bad guys' but betrayal is betrayal and a lot of people don't like that.
I'm more of the mind that someone has to be deserving of loyalty. People that scream LOYALTY AT ALL COSTS just make me.. suspicious.
Why do you need my set in stone word that I won't stab you in the back? Do you plan to do something that would make you deserving of said stab in the back? Are you so confident that you'll end up doing something so utterly inhuman and vile that you need that binding oath?
SR4rry !p28NxRuKMo
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Anonymous
>>12284062
...is this the part where we kill everyone working for the gvmt? Or is that next post?
Anonymous
>>12283994
now here's the fun part
The russians beat the nazi's
germans made most of the A-bombs
the first car was either invented by the russians the french or the germans
woops?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284055
Not really you whining liberal pussy. I've just gotten off work, you know, that place I go so that I can pay taxes so you can keep your government entitlements turned on. How about you? Spend all day in the coffee house crying and whining about how unfair it is that your mocha chai latte costs you five dollars that your parents had to pay for when it should have been free, because, like, it came from the ground, and like, everyone should like have just what they need and nothing more. Filthy fucking commie, take a goddamned bath, and call me when you grow the fuck up and your fucking balls drop.
Anonymous
>>12284053
So, what's the weather like over there in Head-Up-Your-Own-Ass Fantasyland?
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284069
c'mon man, we didnt do anything bad to the indians. remember when the mayflower came over? we just had an awesome party later called thanksgiving. there was no rape or genocide. none. i didnt learn about that in elementary.
Anonymous
>>12284068
What if I need to hide my motivations from you because you won't understand until the plan comes together?
If I'm running a gambit that benefits everyone in the end, then it doesn't matter what you think while something is occurring, because the ends justify the means. Great job breaking it hero.
Anonymous
>>12284076
AND AMERICA TAKES THE CREDIT
Anonymous
>>12283728
If that occurs and we do not have another viable resource then you can bet your ass that billions upon billions of humans will die out. Oil is the cornerstone of everything now. Only a small minority have the tools and skills to survive without it.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284091
AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!
Anonymous
>>12284091
and you have betrayed your own culture by using something another culture had
Actually americans speaking about culture is hilarious since USA is prolly the country on earth with the least culture
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284095
lol, i keep saying our race dying out; if there are still some fucking new guinea fuckers or amazon people running around alive, then our race IS STILL HERE, NOT EXTINCT.
i dont deny that a shit ton of us would die, including myself likely.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284069
Did you even read how many people were killed there? That is not genocide. That wasn't the only massacre in the Indian Wars, and the White Man wasn't the only one who butchered people.
Anonymous
>>12284076
>The russians beat the nazi's
Huehuehuehuehue. Both sides of the allies contributed. Neither one would have won without the other.
>germans made most of the A-bombs
If by germans you mean german born scientists, chased out of their country out of fear for their lives, then sure. Hitler would have micromanaged any atomic weapons to a crippling degree, like he did with literally everything else during the war. Germany would have needed years to deploy the bomb.
>the first car was either invented by the russians the french or the germans
Lucky for the modern world, it's not about who INVENTS something. It's about who INNOVATES a way to make it useful, in this case, our wonderful jewhating Ford.
Anonymous
>>12284083
>>12284087
It's clear I'm not going to get an intelligent rebuttal from you.
So fucking typical of ignorant shits like you.
Jokes on me for responding in the first place.
Anonymous
>>12284095
Good, let the weak fall while the strong survive. Thin out the fucking herd of the pussy fucks who can't hack it in a mans world.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284124
yeh but we've been through some rought times
a few 10.000 years back there were only around 1000 humans left, look at us now
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284112
What are you talking about, we have LOTS of culture. We have all of the cultures in the world!
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Google iqdb SauceNAO
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Quoted By:
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
>>12284076
The first car was developed by a Flemish missionary in China.
Anonymous
>>12284124
>lol, i keep saying our race dying out; if there are still some fucking new guinea fuckers or amazon people running around alive, then our race IS STILL HERE, NOT EXTINCT.
If our technological civilization is destroyed then our race is pretty much fucking doomed. To survive it needs to spread beyond this planet. Regardless, I'd be willing kill aliens if it mean saving my CIVILIZATION from destruction.
Unlike you, there are people I care about and I want them to civilization to grow up in. A good one.
Anonymous
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Quoted By:
Tomathy Jones !EUuDlLY8WQ
Quoted By:
>>12284075
Apologies. I'll go back to trolling now.
Though a beta male such as yourself would try and ridicule me for being alpha. You jelly 'cause I'm fucking the sluts while you're home alone on /tg/?
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284131
intelligent or not, you seem to be in denial
Anonymous
>>12284130
and the germans innovated his innovation
fun eh?
also wasn't Fort a traitor since he used the design of another culture?
or the manhattan project for coöperating with some filthy aliens
Anonymous
>>12284140
Invented by a flemishman, innovated by an american, shoved to the forefront of the world by an american, used by everyone on arabian oil.
Looks to me like it's time the americans came up with an awesome crazy idea that other countries can try to run with and take eventual credit for. Let's try coming up with something for the rest of the world to try taking credit for. Oh wait, I know... The rest of the world can take credit for sucking my fucking dick.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284140
its not even sure it was built
and I don't see a 65 cm toy as a valid car
we both read wikipedia
Anonymous
>>12284153
>intelligent or not, you seem to be in denial
Yeah, I'm in denial of Hollywood history. Here's a hint kid: elementary school glossed over American history. If you think it taught you everything you're a fool. Why don't you take the and fucking read about what actually happened?
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284147
ok, say we get a massive die out and go back to the bronze age or something. in the..lets be generous and say 10-15k years it may take to get back to this level of tech, is the sun going to explode or something? as a species we are not in immediate danger. for the long haul, yes we must get find options outside of earth.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
>>12284134
Live for a week in Sierra Leone then try saying that, you fat fuck.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284172
what the fuck are you talking about? i was being sarcastic, and meaning the very same thing you just said: "american history is glossed over" that was my point
Anonymous
>>12284182
Like I said, if you care for nobody but yourself then I guess you don't care if civilization is destroyed. I'm not as antisocial as you though.
Anonymous
>>12284197
>what the fuck are you talking about? i was being sarcastic, and meaning the very same thing you just said: "american history is glossed over" that was my point
No, you said I was in denial. You previously implied I was ignorant for stating the facts about what happened to the American Indians.
You fucking horse fucker.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284202
well, youve got me there. i do tend to hate my fellow man, ill admit that
Anonymous
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>>12284157
>and the germans innovated his innovation
They didn't so much innovate as copy and apply german precision to it which raised the quality and lowered the quantity. Not so good when your enemies put out some 100+ tanks combined for every one of yours.
>also wasn't Fort a traitor since he used the design of another culture?
You mean..like americans idolize doing? Building on the work of others?
>or the manhattan project for coöperating with some filthy aliens
You mean..like americans idolize doing? Building on the work of others?
Has anyone ever been so far as to have where look for like?
Anonymous
>>12284184
You try it you liberal shit. Some of us understand that there is more to life than living in a goddamned dirt factory who's only product is aids and fucking death.
If you want to go live in a goddamned trashheap, go for it. Personally, if the TEOTWAWKI comes along, I'm fucking set. 500 acres of crop growing farm land, animals, and enough know how to live my life in that situation if I have to.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284167
and then the germans came and had an even crazier and more awesome idea and everyone ran with that one
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284213
you said there was no genocide against indians, and that isnt true
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284217
But you can't build on the work of others since that would be treason to your own culture to admit someone else did something right
like you said
Anonymous
>>12284216
>well, youve got me there. i do tend to hate my fellow man, ill admit that
Well as long as you are honest about it then we've reached a mutual understanding.
Anonymous
>>12284131
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
Thomas Jefferson.
Anonymous
>>12284227
>you said there was no genocide against indians, and that isnt true
It is true. If there was a genocide show me a genocide.
The massacre at Wounded Knee and the Trail of Tears aren't a genocide. They're tragedies, massacres of innocent people, but not a genocide.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
We don't like Avatar because it just isn't good writing.
Anonymous
>>12284243
Yeah, clever, go eat a penis.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
>>12284220
You don't know anything about my opinions, you imbecile, save those directed specifically at you.
You are, like every other fuckface to espouse the 'b-b-but NATURAL SELECTION' philosophy, the firts person who would die if it was ever instituted. Your being born in one country over another is as much an arbitrary intervention in your life chances as anything else, and if you genuinely do not see this then you are so abysmally fucking ignorant that I don't see how you can operate a funcking keyboard.
Anonymous
>>12284250
genocide is wiping out a group of people to the point they or their culture does not exist anymore
USA has been attempting to exterminate the native culture for the past couple of hundred years by meens that include killing natives en masse
its genocide
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284238
indeed. i dont actually care about any of the cultures or races involved, im just arguing that brutally taking what is necessary by wiping out others (as nature intended) should be done with a certain...reserve, acknowledging the true nature of what we/they have done, not covering up history or making it sound justified. false justification is immoral
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
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Quoted By:
Anonymous
>>12284182
If that happened, humanity could be wiped out by a plague within a year.
This is why I hate all tripfags.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
The truth of the matter is that the best out look is as follows.
Longsword Tank
Quoted By:
This is always what threads about Avatar dissolve into, and it's goddamn retarded. People are arguing about opinions like they're facts, and tossing speculation around like it's empirical evidence. All it does it make everyone involved look like a damn fool for getting involved, myself included.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
I guess for me the biggest problem is not the defection itself, but rather the arbitrary statement that a primitive culture is innately better than a civilized western one. It just reeks of Rousseau-esque tree-hugging bullshit.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284295
what plague? did i miss a memo?
no seriously, what do you mean?
Anonymous
>>12284273
Then I guess Mexicans are committing genocide against Americans, and I guess Americans are committing genocide against the rest of the world.
Native culture died out on its own, not because it was deliberately destroyed by the white man. In fact whites attempted to integrate natives into mainstream society specifically to save them.
Anonymous
>>12284279
If it is necessary then it is justified, no covering up necessary.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
Quoted By:
>>12284273
No, that's a completed genocide.
Genocide is not an outcome but a process. Genocide is the deliberate and systematic effort to destroy a people or their culture. How far along you've gotten in the process is not actually material to the charge. You can and like a dickhead to one guy and be guilty of genocide if you're doing it to try and systematically destroy his ethnic culture. You can kill every last member of an entire ethnic group without it being genocide if, by some fantastically unlikely coincidence, you had another reason for every single one.
Of course, nobody will be prosecuted for the former, whereas the latter would likely see the deliberate redefinition of the word. That is a matter of enforcability, not definition.
Anonymous
>>12284311
At one point, a cataclysm knocked humanity down to a few thousand people. Now, imagine them being hit with the Plague, on a devastated Earth.
You are such a fucking idiot it is unreal.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284327
i dont agree with that
Anonymous
>>12284268
And this Dr. Baron von fucking idiot, is why people like you will never amount to a goddamned thing in life. Enjoy serving fries and living in your goddamned parents basement you fucking dickless wonder. People like you are the worst mistakes of humanity. Telling us the obvious fact that our birth is a random fact of chance is obvious. That doesn't mean we can't be proud of our random piece of fate and what it has happened because of it.
Just like you can be proud that there are people who make it so you can fucking live you worthless piece of liberal filth.
Anonymous
>>12284266
Grow a brain, pull your head out of your arse, find some compassion for your fellow man, realize what capitalism is doing to us all, and call me then. It's impossible to reason with people like you because you have absolutely no compassion, love, or respect for your fellow men and women. I'm guessing you're sitting in your mother's basement, hatefully bashing on your keyboard because you've been fucked over by society. Have fun with your lonely, desperate life.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284315
While not necessarily true, it's important to note that native American culture simply could not keep up with the expansion. The simple fact is that the Natives were at a plateau stage, and were content NOT spreading their culture, even to each other. Cultural boundaries would have washed over them in any event, with or without the spotty violence. Even as early as the revolutionary war, Natives were learning English, donning suits, and moving toward the cities.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
My issue with Avatar is that it's just too over the top. Humanity has no good points, the Navi have no bad ones, it just does not feel...right to me.
Anonymous
>>12284339
That's nice for you.
Imagine, if you will, a fungus that infects humans. After a while, this carrier climbs to a high place and explodes, spreading spores everywhere. It's plausible.
Would you COVER UP the execution of these people?
Amerindfag
Quoted By:
>>12284315
and you succeeded . . . because of amerind Jake Sullys
my personal problem with the movie is that it glorifies the type of person who sold my grandmother's hut out from underneath her and put my mom on the street.
That it embraces that mindset as a positive life choice deserving praise boggles my mind.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284333
ok, that could happen, hypothetically, but our planet has been through all kinds of shit, and it takes something pretty epic to exterminate an entire species that is as adaptable as ours. i just dont think that not being able to fulfill our energy needs is enough to bring us down to a few thousand people.
Anonymous
>>12284346
Capitalism is the premise that a man is entitled to the work of his hands. You can claim it's a horrible system, but the fact remains that there is none other that has been successful. It's the best we've got, so far, for the large scale.
Should you invent something better...and I mean really better, not just half-hearted transhuman idealism, then push it.
Anonymous
>>12284346
>realize what capitalism is doing to us all
Stopped reading there. Get a fucking haircut and a job, and stop leeching off the rest of us.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Blackfeet here. I don't like being compared to a pandering, fetishistic elf race.
Anonymous
>>12284342
Yes, be proud of genocide. Be proud of exploitation. Be proud of idiocy, be proud of denying countries who never did anything wrong a chance at happiness and peace. Be proud of turning an Eden into a hellish maze of strip malls, condos, and sheep who only care about what the mass media feeds them, too ignorant to get of their asses and realize the shithole they're in. Be proud of America and all the things it's done. Idiot.
Anonymous
>>12284358
to avoid public panic, yes
Servant of the Emperor
Quoted By:
I find that Jake had not only betrayed his race, but the history, training, Everything that mankind had ever given him from his flu shots growing up to the hometown girl's virginity he took back in highschool. When he was learning how to defend himself in the united states military, to shoot, to fall in line, military tactics, courage, and though it seemed a useless effort, Honor.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
Quoted By:
>>12284342
This has nothing to do with it you unimaginable faggot. You're completely avoiding the only point in this entire shitfest, which is that you and everyone else who talks natural selection as making you cool is a monstrous fuckface. It is one of the handful of opinions it is possible to hold that is genuinely inherently deserving of contempt.
Anonymous
>>12284358
No, I'd simply proscribe that athletes do not shower together until the spores were contained.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284366
And when all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy is Warre; which provideth for every man, by Victory, or Death.
-Thomas Hobbes
I can quote, too. We'd tear each other apart for resources, and the remainder would slowly die out.
Anonymous
>>12284369
capitalism failed in the 1930's
what we have now isn't capitalism its a hybrid called socialism
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12284358
ok...kind of odd but plausible. in the past humans tend to attempt to qaurantine and care for the sick instead of killing them, ex. plague doctors walking around medieval cities tending to people. but if we decided to kill them all, i dont think i should be covered up.
Anonymous
>>12284375
It's not me who's doing the leeching. Look at Donald Trump. Look at Bill Gates, look at Steve Jobs. Look at the dickhead in a bespoke suit driving his Ferrari 50 mph over the speed limit. They have everything, while tens, if not hundreds, of millions starve. And for what? What have they done to merit this? Nothing. They were lucky, they were smart, maybe they worked hard. But did they work hard enough to justify their excesses? No. If you hate people who leech off society, grab a gun, start a revolution and kill the capitalists.
Anonymous
>>12284388
>>12284381
It's a real fungus. And it would be all but impossible to contain. If you did not tell the public, then somebody would inhale some spores, go to another city, and infect everyone.
Brilliant.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
>>12284393
Okay, no. If anything, the modern political-economic system that dominates the West is even more capitalist than it was in the 1920s. The current system in the US isn't strictly capitalist, but it actually trends more towards an extremely weak oligarchy than it does to socialism.
Longsword Tank
>>12284366
Playing Devil's Advocate against you for a moment. Our energy grid is, quite frankly, incredibly delicate and we rely upon it for everything.
Let's consider a big nasty solar flare shorting out the world's electrical grid for a week. It's more or less likely depending on who you talk to, but plausible. Depending on the time of year, a lot of people are already dying from exposure to the elements. Everyone else is lighting fires and candles and shit to see by, and since many people are dumbasses they light their own shit on fire. But there's no power to generate water pressure in the hydrants, so before long fires WILL spread in every sizable spread of habitation.
And that's just within a week. Granted, this is also conjecture and supposition, but it serves to illustrate just how fragile we are as people without the civilization we've co-developed with.
Anonymous
>>12284379
"The world is evilbad because it values success."
Face it, kid, if you were rolling in dough you wouldn't give this shit a second thought. Not because you were blinded by prosperity or sedated by the media, but because you wouldn't be suffering from envy.
The root of all this capitalism bashing bullshit is precisely this: I want what he has. why not me?
My own father rages about corporations and business all the time. I'm going into business for myself, along with a colleague of mine. When asked how he would feel if *I* became one of those rich businessmen, he fell silent.
Suddenly businessmen aren't so bad. Suddenly wealth isn't the root of evil. Not when it's your son.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284393
>laissez-faire capitalism is the definition of capitalism
Are you actually TRYING to sound like an utter ignoramus?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284393
No, this is capitalism checked by governmental regulations. Socialism rejects all aspects of capitalism, providing an alternative economic order.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284410
the only reason we cept naming it capitalism was to oppose the filthy communists during the cold war
Anonymous
>>12284404
And then, start up a communist utopia, like the Soviet Union.
Modern day Prometheus, you are.
Anonymous
>>12284404
It's amusing, because you have no idea the absurd amount of money all of the those people have donated to charity the world over. In fact, if I recall, Gates is the worlds most philanthropic man.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
>>12284408
You have to draw a very clear distinction between justified acts and good acts, because it is extremely dangerous when they become confused.
If you perform an action that is heinous, you have to recognise that it was a heinous act. No matter how justified it was, or how it needed to be done, you need to remember that you had to do something wrong to get it. When you do something wrong to achieve something right, your action is justifiable, not good.
You need to keep that distinction alive and clear, because if you forget there is a difference, you will confuse the two. And when what is justifiable becomes what is good, the scope of truly horrific outcomes is nearly unmatched.
Anonymous
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284413
well, ok that could happen, as well as the magic spores, ill accept that. i still think that enough humans would survive in remote places to save the species, and eventually rebuild/recreate civilization.
Anonymous
>>12284417
Yes, because it's impossible for a human being to want a better life for everyone, not just himself. It's not envy, it's hope that motivates me. I assume you dislike terrorists. What then, would you do if your own son started blowing up buildings? Would you turn him in to the federal authorities, knowing that he would either face an unimaginably awful life in prison or death? Or would you shield him, and go against everything you believe in?
Stately Buff-Cookie!
Quoted By:
>>12284090
>What if I need to hide my motivations from you
What do you have to hide? What are you so scared of anyone else seeing? You ask me to be your comrade and share our deepest truest selves with each other, and you go and keep a secret that, for some reason, I am better off not knowing?
Are you going to say, "It's for my own good," next?
> because you won't understand until the plan comes together?
Oh, so the assumption is just that everyone but you is too stupid to understand? Don't mind me while I stab this baby in the face. You just wouldn't understand! It'll all work out! TRUST ME!
Or maybe everyone but the guy in charge is just a stupid sheep? Yeah, that's it! Those stuipd sheeple. You're the only one with any real intellect or awareness. They are just meat computers running on programmed responses. It's up to YOU to guide the world to a better place, but you can't risk the commoners getting in the way. They just -don't get it-.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284408
I would spread the news of the fungus but keep the executions private to avoid public panick for a good reason
know that idiot in zombie movies that hides his infection because he doesn't want to be shot? well that idiot is gonna try to run away as far as he can because he's special and he'll be just fine and there's no reason why he should be executed
you tell people you found a cure but it requires them to be put in quarantine for a long while so they actually come to you instead of run away. In that case this would be the best possible outcome
Anonymous
>>12284448
Good and evil are unquantifiable concepts.I thought you of all people would know that.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12284448
i agree, you worded that much better than i could have
Anonymous
>>12284456
I'd turn him in, in a heartbeat.
Would you?
Anonymous
>>12284478
I would.
Tough love is easy to apply in this case.
Anonymous
>>12284451
You mean, like the African tribes that have been progressing so fucking much?
Magus O'Grady
Quoted By:
>>12283333
Look at the sides in each movie:
Tribal Side:
Ancient cultural heritage-Applicable value: Minimal
Simple way of life- Applicable value: Null
Resistance to change-Applicable value: Negative
Violent, often murderous response to innocents from foreign cultures in desperate need of resources: Negative
Civilized side:
Advanced culture with greater freedoms-Applicable value: Positive
Advanced technology which makes life easier-Applicable value: Positive
Advanced medicinal practices which can double or triple the life expectancy of the tribals-Applicable value: Positive
Willingness to share and/or trade technology and medicine fairly-Applicable value: Positive
Desperate need for resources the tribals squander or are completely ignorant of-Applicable Value: Positive
In both movies, the savages were offered a chance to become something far greater than what they were. They were offered the chance to join a more advanced culture peacefully. They responded with murder and sabotage. they were offered lifesaving technologies and the chance to free themselves from the shackles of ignorance and poverty. They shunned the benefits of civilization.
And then comes the pivotal traitor. Given a choice between swaying the savages over to the side of reason and civilization, he abandons his people in exchange for an easy lay with a disease ridden savage whose backwards religion and culture will kill him even if the myriad parasites and illnesses they host don't.
The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few. Yet in each movie, the traitor places greater importance on carnal gratification than on the continued survival of his friends, family, and the wellbeing of the tribe he's joined. That is why /tg/ rejects the traitors so vehemently. Ignorance, short-sightedness, and disloyalty are generally frowned upon here.
Anonymous
>>12284436
Communism is profoundly flawed. Central planning is inefficient and inevitably results in the creation of a bureaucratic elite, who in many ways takes the place of the previous capitalistic elite. The Soviet Union was a nice experiment, but it failed. That dosen't mean that we have to abandon the quest for something better than capitalism, just that that avenue is impossible barring someone invents Culture Minds, or the equivalent.
Anonymous
>>12284482
If you suddenly became rich, would you give it all to charity?
Be truthful.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
>>12284484
i never said it would be pretty or good in any way, im still only arguing about survival of the species.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284393
Government intervention failed in the 1930s.
Anonymous
>>12284492
Then YOU come up with a better, REALISTIC idea, and come back to me.
Otherwise, shut the fuck up.
Longsword Tank
Quoted By:
>>12284451
I'd just as soon do what I can to make sure the one we do have survives. There's a lot of bad in the societies we have as humans, but a lot of good as well. Nobody short of the maniacally depraved WANT to do horrendous things to each other. It's just a measure of when we're willing to set our morals aside in order to take a necessary step for the betterment of ourselves and/or those around us.
That's all this argument is, really. People just have that line drawn at different points in the sand.
>consider terimis
I've been doing some deep thinking on this, Captcha, and terimis hadn't even come to mind. Thanks.
Anonymous
>>12284501
Look at Avatar.
Do you really think there were any tribals left?
Are you an idiot?
Anonymous
>>12284509
I'm not stupid enough to think that I can come up with an entire societal structure by myself. I have some ideas, but this kind of thing needs to involve everyone. Just because I don't have everything mapped out doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Anonymous
>>12284494
Amusingly, I've already decided to give away a third of my riches, should I ever acquire enough of anything that could be considered 'riches.' At that point, I can live off the interest.
Of course, I'm sure that being rich would make me evil, by default. No matter what I do with it.
Second Person !OyXaNA7k1o
Quoted By:
>>12284517
we didnt really see much of earth, did we. so i guess i dont know.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
>>12284465
I know this, but the problem is trying to rephrase what I said to accept that would turn a simple argument into a complete shitfight.
You know what I mean by good, and the exact nature of good wasn't really the point. Is that not sufficient?
>>12284417
I don't see what the father thign actually has to do with your point.
I accept that capitalism is more or less the only practical choice. Sure, I'd like some specific refinements to be made to the exact application of it, but I also recognise that the small political voice I have and exercise is everything I can do about it. Communism is not capable of being practicably instituted in the modern economy, and socialism isn't a system but just a place you can draw the line.
But I do recognise that capitalism is not inherently good, and I daresay has enough serious problems that it cannot be called good at all. It is the best that can reasonably be done, but that doesn't make it good. I'm content enough to move along with it for now, but hoping that a more effective alternative eventually arises. I'm not in much hope this side of post-scarcity.
If you forget that capitalism is only the least worst and not actually good, then you deny yourself the capacity to actually meaningfully judge alternate systems. Capitalism as we know it will eventually have to change, and being able to sensibly judge what we can change it into when this happens will be a very important attribute in society.
Anonymous
>>12284532
>Just because I don't have everything mapped out doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
You were the one talking about violent revolution and killing capitalists, right?
This is why I value my right to bear arms.
Anonymous
>>12284552
I'd argue that a decentralized system of syndicates/communes with a meaningful yet weak central government may well work, but it's just an idea floating around at this point.
Anonymous
>>12284552
We need to go for true Capitalism, an unknown ideal as it stands. Government intervention whether through corruption and corporate subsidies or through harmful regulation is the root of all evil in the system.
The market would inevitably correct itself left to its own devices.
Friendly Stormtrooper
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>>12284567
>Meaningful, yet weak
Brb, conquering land
Anonymous
Quoted By:
>>12284559
Yeah, that was me.
I meant that if he really wanted to go after the people who leech off society, that's what he should do. Violent revolution often seems like it can solve all our problems, but it often just creates more. Brain drain, the creation of an elite, the requirement to magic up an entire societal structure, etc.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
Quoted By:
>>12284542
You couyld be rich AND good, but it'd probably be very hard, given that being rich in this world more or less necessitates taking things from other people for yourself.
I suppose if you structured your wealth origins in such a way that you took wealth from people who didn't suffer much from the loss, and made significant contributions to those who stood to gain a great deal from a small amount, you could create enough of a net good benefit that you could keep enough for yourself to stay rich. Like go into a business that manufactures megayachts for retardedly rich people, and put all the profits you don't actually need into an effective NGO that distributes vaccines and medicines to cripplingly poor people.
Or if you made a product that genuinely improved people's lives more than the sum of money they gave you for it could and had no other significant source of wealth.
Magus O'Grady
Quoted By:
>>12284494
I don't know about the poster you're replying to in asking that, but I'll but in with my answer:
No, that would be stupid. What I will do is invest those newfound financial resources responsibly so that they pay dividends. Then, I will arrange for one third of the interest from those resources to be given to worthy charities each year from now until humanity ceases to exist. The other two thirds, one sixth will be drawn away for e to live off of, and most of that will probably be shared with friends anyway in some for or another, and the rest will be re-invested, guaranteeing that each year the amount given to charity will rise significantly with compounding interest.
To do otherwise is a foolish waste of resources.
Anonymous
>>12284578
I lol'd. Certainly, the military would be under the control of this central government, but the individual syndicates and groups of syndicates would be able to influence how it was used. I got the first bit of inspiration from the Union of Britain in Kaiserreich, a mod for HoI2. There has been some excellent writing in this universe, and I highly recommend you check it out.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
>>12284567
That sort of system can't really survive long. Sooner or later, somebody comes along who wants other syndicates' things, and the ability of this person to monopol;ise resources as he takes over sydicates makes him difficult for a people with a strong sense of personal independence to control.
>>12284576
I've never seen someone with a real understanding of how capitalism works out, not just works, posit that. In fact, it's not really a sound notion. Pure capitalism makes for very pretty numbers, but only when you forget what the numbers actually mean. Hence the only real high-level support for the notion coming from people who only deal in numbers.
Friendly Stormtrooper
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>>12284604
How do propose establishing a weak central government if IT has the only army? There's no balance of power, it all rests in the hands of the Federalists.
Anonymous
>>12284639
>numbers are scary
I really don't know what to say, except people with plenty of practical experience advocate a minimalist philosophy of government.
Anonymous
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ITT.
Anonymous
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>>12283465
No face it. The shitty mercs go killed because they were using hollywood combat tactics even Starwars Stormtroopers would be ashamed off.
Had Avatar been in real life, the corporation would have fired a smart bomb from over 300 miles away and no stinking native would have been able to do anything about it.
Hell... They could have simply dropped a titanium rod from orbit and acheived a non-radioactive explosion on that damn tree of life.
But no... These guys were worse than Starship troopers and wanted to get into the enemies face for some unknown reason. Least Starship Troopers had a good reason for doing it.
Anonymous
>>12284639
Syndicates are intended to be economic rather than political institutions, with their political engagement being limited to democratic participation in the central government. They might have control over local police forces, but that would be it. I'm not an anarcho-syndicalist.
>>12284648
It would be weak because it would have limited legal authority in the nation, and the people making it up would be partially or wholly drawn from the syndicates themselves.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
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>>12284670
Some of them. Others advocate plenty of other things.
I generally prefer government control to corporate control, which is realistically the only two ways capitalism can work. It's easier to instil a sense of responsible governance in government and public service, where it's actually one of the reasons people work there, than in corporate culture, where the way everything works is completely opposed to it. I can also tolerate more easily the damage government can do, generally due to well-meaning mistakes on large scales, than that of corporations, which are generally deliberate because they just don't give a shit about you.
Dr. Baron von Evilsatan
>>12284699
Your system's good function depends on everyone havign a sense of civic responsibility. Fair enough, most do. But the judge of how good a system is is what goes wrong when they don't.
In that situation, you've centralised a military force and split all the other groupings into ones that can't meaningfully fight it.
Compare this to capitalist-driven constitutional governments, where if they don't have a sense of civic responsibilities nothing much gets doen and things are inefficient. Or hypercapitalism, where if they don't have a sense fo civic responsibility it eventually turns into corporate pseudofeudalism, where things suck more for most but some people have a decent time.
Anonymous
Quoted By:
ITT: Traitors.
Anonymous
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>>12284768
The idea is that since all syndicates have a direct stake in the central government, they wouldn't go after other groupings due to that. Keep in mind, syndicates are almost certainly going to be trading with each other extensively, so that's another reason.
Anonymous
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>>12284696
The Pandoran Outpost didn't HAVE any heavy weaponry like that. They weren't an occupying army, they were a fucking mining operation.
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
My own take on the Avatar thing.
Anonymous
>its basically the bully on the playground beating you up for your lunch money - being who i am, it gives me a kinda biased opinion toward imperialism, but its just the way history turned out.
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
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If the film were being made by anyone other than the technophobe himself, it would have been different. Let say Mike Bay directed it. It would more human centric, the Aliens would be more like able, and there would be another faction that would make both us and the Na'vi agree to for a team up. Lots more explosions, and in the end we would have the mineral, Jake would have his Na'vi tang, and we would have joined forces to become something greater than we once were.
Anonymous
>>12287356
I'm still trying to figure out what Cameron's playing at, undermining the point of his whole movie.
Unless he doesn't see it as undermining, and his real message is that we should leave alone even violent, unreasonable native people, no matter what resources they're sitting on.
Knowing the guy, I'd say it's likely the latter.
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
>>12287681
Like anyone who's so sure of the validity of their message that they will happily be a hypocrite to spread it, he wants us to go back to our post-high tech ways and love the earth as our ancestors in their narrow mindedness intended.
I for one think the man has finally gone to far into tin-hat loco, and needs to step away from the soap box before he starts to gargle the bleach...
Anonymous
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>>12287810
He's shitting up Alberta right now, it sucks, because people have to treat him like he's somebody even as he spouts his batshit garbage all over the place. I wish he'd stayed with that tribe in the Amazon, permanently.
Anonymous
>One of the things ive noticed, and its impossible not too, is the opinion of most of the anon's, that the main characters of Dances With Wolves, and Avatar - most posters have mentioned either hating these characters, thinking of them as traitors
Anonymous
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>>12287888
>English government betrays principles of English liberty
>English colonists say fuck that and revolt to keep their rights
>colonists are "traitors"
Anonymous
I haven't seen one person mention how Jake was more concerned with Alien tail than peacefully getting the aliens to move so they could get the unobtanium. He was a flat out moron, even more retarded than how they portrayed the "bad guys". And that is SAYING SOMETHING.
Anonymous
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Jake Sully betrayed humanity
Anonymous
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>or having problems with the movie because they join the opposed native culture.
Anonymous
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>>12288039
I raged at the shit-tier history more than the idiocy of the post, which is pretty typical.
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
>>12288012
Uhh how about in this
>>12287335 post here where I mention that a Marine does not sell out his brothers for tang?
I for one like the old grizzly vet with battle scars, he kept true to his word and tried to get Jake to help humanity and get a new fucking set of legs. Then Jake had to go and be a fucking frat boy on St pats and try to dry hump every goddamn thing with an opening...
Anonymous
>>12288060
John Murtha sold out his fellow Marines every day he sat in his Senate seat.
Joining the Corps doesn't magically make you an excellent person.
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
>>12288067
You'll note I said "Any Marine I Know". I only deal with the grunts not the Officers hellbent on politics, my thought is still both valid and in play.
Anonymous
>>12288060
>Uhh how about in this
This is a pretty damn long thread, I'm not ashamed to say I didn't read every post more skimmed as much as I could.
>I for one like the old grizzly vet with battle scars, he kept true to his word and tried to get Jake to help humanity and get a new fucking set of legs. Then Jake had to go and be a fucking frat boy on St pats and try to dry hump every goddamn thing with an opening...
I did like him. But I like a lot of people until I get to know them better and realize they are hateful murderous things at heart.
But he's a real iffy case, I was just pointing him out to not sound totally anti- liberal. Because I don't much like their antagonists either.
tl;dr He seems cool, he kept his word and that's awesome. As he's shown in the movie I like him. I was just considering what parts of him weren't shown.
Anonymous
>>12288080
Why do Marine officers specifically seem to be so susceptible to playing politics?
Anonymous
Quoted By:
Boy I really like trying to piece together what people were talking about in a thread where half the posts are gone!
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
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>>12288082
No worries, it's why I pointed it out...
Anonymous
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>>12288098
because all officers play politics. it's the job.
Anonymous
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>>12283728
>>oil is vital to our energy needs, but when it runs out, we arent going to die out.
But you gotta admit there will be a hell of a culling if it's STILL vital to our energy needs.....
pic related
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
>>12288098
Hmmm, maybe I'm not being clear. I do not engage in daly repartee or camaraderie with any officers of any branch. This matters little if they have aspirations to a public office, have any personal inclination to politicking or aggressive social networking, or are content with their current placement.
Rather, I spend my employment hours and part of my personal hours with members of the enlisted of all branches, however the number of Marines who I know does outweigh any other service branch. All those who I associate myself with are the type who would take an offence to anyone who would see personal sexual gratification as a priority over the well being of his fellows in a combat environment.
I hope this clears up your nitpicks.
Anonymous
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I'm not going to defend avatar here (It's not a very well written movie) but holy shit is /tg/ just hell of RL fascist
Anonymous
>>12288162
Wasn't nitpicking, that was just musing. I have plenty of respect for most people in the Corps at whatever rank, get your panties out of their bunch.
Political officers stick in my craw because people feel like they support the military by voting for them, when half the time it's the opposite.
Anonymous
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>>12288202
And yes Jake Sully is a gigantic douchebag, I think we've established that premise ITT.
Anonymoose !!rVXCOwzDzHH
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>>12288202
not wadded, though when ya lean forward in a chair they do kinda tug. Just had to be sure I was getting my point across.
Anonymous
we hate them because we get +5 to our spot checks against Mary Sues. And one of the prerequisites for taking the neckbeard prestige is skill focus: hate mary sues.
Anonymous
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>>12288335
Not really sues, /tg/ is terribad at identifying them anyway.
They're just expies for injuns who need a white man to lead them or they won't accomplish anything. Said white man is of course also better at being injun than the injuns themselves.
